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Please Help...Has my lady been molested or abused?
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EricasGuy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Please Help...Has my lady been molested or abused? Reply with quote

Hello everyone...I posted this on the Partners and Loved Ones forum first then I saw this section and figured it belonged here because I think it's about her issues with intimacy.

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm brand new here and I've come looking for some answers, and maybe some support. I'm completely in love with the most wonderful lady I've ever known, but something utterly crazy has happened and I'm so confused by her behavior which is bizzare. I think maybe she's been raped or molested but she has not ever said so. In fact she might not even know it herself. She claims she's suffered emotional and verbal abuse growing up, and she's spoken of two very hurtful abandonment episodes with men, but said nothing physical. or sexual has happened..I wonder if she's wong about that...won't admit it, or if in fact she's suffered sexual abuse at a very early age and doesn't even know it.

Before I begin, I should tell you that I've been through something like this once before. Five years ago my wife at the time, who was a rape victim and had many other issues, committed suicide following a long illness and alcoholism. I went through unimaginable trauma with her including her constant infidelity but I loved her every day until the end and never left her or bailed out. My wife made her peace with God and me before she died but her physical and emotional damage was to severe to bear. I went through the trauma as a survivor of spousal suicide for 3 years before I started healing. As a result of my faith staying strong, I was strengthened as a result of the things I went through with her. I think that experience might have something to do with preparing me for now. I think I'm better prepared for a tough fight this time around.

Please tell me if you think my lady's been abused, raped or molested somewhere in her past. This is the only question I'm asking at this point. I'd prefer nobody tell me to leave the relationship or that she's damaged goods, that I'm overstepping boundaries...I got this on another board. I only want to know if you think she's been sexaully abused and that's what's causing this behavior.

Here's our story:

I've been in a business relationship as a partner and friend with this amazing 30 year old woman for over a year now. From the beginning we seemed to be so good with each other that even other people thought we were a couple though we were not, but I knew there was a definite attraction, yet we kept it under wraps since we were working on business together. No sexual activity has occured between us on any level. Last August things began to move closer. One night as I walked her to the car, she put her arms around me and wispered in my ear, "I love you". I wasn't sure how she meant it though since she says things like that to people, so I said "I love you too" in a kind of casual way. She seemed to be moving closer to me, talking about how God was "teaching us with one mind". A few days later I told her that I had feelings for her. She said she had feelilngs for me also. She said she was my girlfriend and we could go to the next level now, and this was great.

Cool eh? Not so fast...one week later she was in denial. She said, "I meant I was your girlfriend until you FIND your girlfriend". What the hell does that even mean? Nothing...it's nonsense. She does things like this a lot, but I do not believe it has anything to do with leading me on or toying with me. I think she needs help, and she's even said she wants therapy, but never said for what.

She backed away from me then. I gave her space and did not push in any way and a month later she came back on a personal level. We began all over again. She said that we were "halfway between friends and boyfriend/girlfriend". Little by little we got closer. We went out on 5 dates but didn't call them dates. On New Years Eve she invited me to her parents home and I met her family. Other things happened...to much to repeat here but suffice to say, Valentines night I asked her out and we went to dinner. It was so magical and romatnic, the perfect night. I made her a handmade gift basket with her name on it, gave her 2 dozen roses in a gorgeous red crystle vase, a 1940's era music box, homemade candy, etc...and I told her I wanted to show her how I felt about her and that I loved her. Then I kissed her hand. That's the only physical contact we've had. She told me "Well you kind of beat me to the punch, but I have something to show you too" and that night she told me she was paying me out of her own pocket to come on board the company she works at (normally I would have been on commissin only) to the tune of $600 a month...so I would be sustianble while I learned the sales end of the company (I'd been laid off my job). What woman does that if she doesn't love or care about you?

Two weeks after our Valentines date she started acting funny again. Finally it all came apart last weekend, and she acted like she had no idea that I was interested in her like this. Say what? No woman could possibly not know this at this point, so I know she's just saying this to protect herself. She's admitted in the past that she runs from committment and is afriad of gettnig to close and she said point blank, "I'm going to push back at you". This was at the end of our 4 hour conversation on the phone last weekend, when I finally admitted that I wanted to spend my life with her and marry her because I had to put an end to this silly "I'm unaware" stuff she was doing. She's reacted utterly crazy now, completely out of character. She was hateful and rude, called me all kind of things...selfsih, arrogant, self centered, untrustworthy...I've treated her the exact opposite of this, even paying bills for her when she was out of work. NOTHING she said made any sense. The next day she ended our personal relationship and now it's only business. She said I was not her man now and never would be. She told me "Nobody has ever dissprespected me like you did, not even the guy who sexually harassed me on my job." Our entire relationship I've done nothing but respect her. I don't even allow my mind to think of her in sexual terms because we both believe sex is for marriage and I set that standard for us. She didn't have to do that, I did that. I've been the quintesential gentleman in every moment of our relationship. Not once have I even remotely said or done anything to dissrepect her in any way.

What is going on here? I think that her bizzare reactions indicate that she is fighting her own very powerful emotions now, and that she really does love me. She admits to steering clear of men because she's afraid of her own physical and emotioanl desires (remember we both believe sex is for mairraige only). That seems to be what's happening here. Why else would she react so totally out of character? If she didn't care at all I think she'd just politely tell me she's not interested and be done with it. I have dozens of examples of us communicating things to each other that indicate we were moving towards love and marriage, but almost all were couched in this strange language of referring to thee things as they relate to other people. She writes love poetry, but admits she doesn't know how to be in relationships, only business.

I've been looking at the concept of transference...where a sexually abused woman trnasfers her rage towards her former abuser to her therapist or romantic partner based on something that reminds her of him...it could be as simple as me having brown hair...in this case it might be because I'm quite a bit older (19 years). I'm wondering if when she was a little girl an older male raped or molested her and now she's transfering her rage to me.

What do you folks think? Have any of you guys experienced this with your wife or GF? I'm taking the same course I did last time, waiting patiently and gently for her, but this time I think maybe when and if she returns to me, that I need to see about her getting that therapy she wanted. In the meantime, I need all the information on this kind of thing I can find so I have an idea what I'm really dealing with here. I know what it's like to hurt and how tough this could be to endure, but I'm very willing to hang in here and just love her till she can heal if this is what it is.

Your help would be so much appreciated.
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ivonne
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see nothing in your story that would be a strong indication of sexual child abuse in her past.

I do see how you're sonsistently telling her that you love her a lot, I don't see reciprocity. There are many reasons a woman might pay for your job, one being that you've done good deeds for her. Seems to me she wants to keep it at being intimate friends. Perhaps she is just not that much into you?

Hope this helps,
Ivonne
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EricasGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ivonne wrote:
I see nothing in your story that would be a strong indication of sexual child abuse in her past.

I do see how you're sonsistently telling her that you love her a lot, I don't see reciprocity. There are many reasons a woman might pay for your job, one being that you've done good deeds for her. Seems to me she wants to keep it at being intimate friends. Perhaps she is just not that much into you?

Hope this helps,
Ivonne

There's a lot that I can't go into in a written format due to time/space considerations etc...but virtually anyone who hears this whole story personally thinks she loves me but she's scared. She in fact admits that she's running because she's unable to handle relationships. She's told me she loves me, she's shown me she loves me. We've had 4 hour conversations about love, marriage, children, the future...etc. Even people who don't really know us have seen us together and knew there was something between us. So I think at this point it's not about how she feels about me but rather how she's hurting. Why she's hurting though...that's what I'm not sure of.

Her irrational and wildly out or chatacter repsonses have all happened in response to knowing I'm serious about her. I'm now seeking to understand the nature of those responses and why they're coming out now.
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ivonne
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are any number of explanations that could fit the picture of someone who acts like your ladyfriend.

Of the top of my head:

She's been burned in a previous relationship
Her parents had some kind of marital difficulty or divorce.
You remind her of her ninth grade teacher who flunked her for not doing her homework.

It seems to me that you're hung up on your theory about the why of what she is doing. Perhaps this explanation holds some comfort for you?

I think on the topic of abuse:

If she has been abused and doesn't know it, whether by choice or ignorance: leave well enough alone. It's not your position to determine this, it's hers.

If she has not been abused, the very thought that she might be acting this way because she's been abused might insult her.

Regardless of theory and background I think people should relate to each other at face value. Her attitude towards you is confusing and hard to reconcile with her previous behavior. This is what needs to be adressed I believe, much more than what might or might not be the cause of such behaviour.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on this topic.

Ivonne
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EricasGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ivonne wrote:
It seems to me that you're hung up on your theory about the why of what she is doing. Perhaps this explanation holds some comfort for you?

Having been through a horrifying expierience with my wife, now deceased after suicide, and knowing that abuse from the past played a role in that, I can assure you that nothing about this holds comfort for me. I love her. Why would I find comfort in that?

I'm mot looking for advice though, just insight on what's happening with her. Thanks for your input on this.
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Taubah
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Ericasguy,

**Am sorry for your loss**

I don't think Ivonne meant that in a negative way. but maybe your past pains are being projected on to this woman. The fact of the matter is that she obviously is having a hard time with the relationship with you, the reason might not be a big issue at this point because even if everyone on this site said yes we think she's got abuse history what difference will that make?

If she's been abused, us telling u will not enlighten or help her, it will only give u some sense of security or 'understanding' into her. ( security as in, it's not me i'm ok, it's her on issue.) But does it really matter? Her not being with you for a particular reason isn't going to stop her not being with you unless she comes to that herself. You can not be at the forefront of this, she has to be, and you taking control over it just may push her further away.

She could have been through all kinds of different things, she has told you about her abandonment and that is a very deep and powerful issue, and if anything is most likely the core of her fear of an intimate relationship. Why are you trying to add to her already admitted pains? There is no way to know that there was sexual abuse, unless she said it.

The only real information you've given us is from your perspective, and how it has all impacted you which is of course ok for supporting and helping you. But isn't much 'meat' in knowing her.

Transference just might be going on, but not with her, rather with you... knowing her past isn't going to save your late wife. Saving this new woman, knowing her story and helping her before it is 'too late' will not fill in the pain and void and guilt you may have of not saving your late wife. because that is a different story and i'm sure a very painful one. This woman is a different person, and you seeing her pain maybe makes you think of the pain in your previous relationship, and i'm so sorry for it. But maybe that fear and pain is really in you... Sometimes we hold on to other peoples issues to take our attention away from our own.

But if you truly think it is something going on with her, the only thing you can do if u really want to, is be open to her if she wants you back and support her in whatever relationship with you she is ready to have. If you do this it maybe that she will come to trust and love you and grow in a more intimate relationship. Either way, respect her wishes and take your time.

with love and light
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EricasGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taubah wrote:
hi Ericasguy,

**Am sorry for your loss**

I don't think Ivonne meant that in a negative way. but maybe your past pains are being projected on to this woman. The fact of the matter is that she obviously is having a hard time with the relationship with you, the reason might not be a big issue at this point because even if everyone on this site said yes we think she's got abuse history what difference will that make?

If she's been abused, us telling u will not enlighten or help her, it will only give u some sense of security or 'understanding' into her. ( security as in, it's not me i'm ok, it's her on issue.) But does it really matter? Her not being with you for a particular reason isn't going to stop her not being with you unless she comes to that herself. You can not be at the forefront of this, she has to be, and you taking control over it just may push her further away.

She could have been through all kinds of different things, she has told you about her abandonment and that is a very deep and powerful issue, and if anything is most likely the core of her fear of an intimate relationship. Why are you trying to add to her already admitted pains? There is no way to know that there was sexual abuse, unless she said it.

The only real information you've given us is from your perspective, and how it has all impacted you which is of course ok for supporting and helping you. But isn't much 'meat' in knowing her.

Transference just might be going on, but not with her, rather with you... knowing her past isn't going to save your late wife. Saving this new woman, knowing her story and helping her before it is 'too late' will not fill in the pain and void and guilt you may have of not saving your late wife. because that is a different story and i'm sure a very painful one. This woman is a different person, and you seeing her pain maybe makes you think of the pain in your previous relationship, and i'm so sorry for it. But maybe that fear and pain is really in you... Sometimes we hold on to other peoples issues to take our attention away from our own.

But if you truly think it is something going on with her, the only thing you can do if u really want to, is be open to her if she wants you back and support her in whatever relationship with you she is ready to have. If you do this it maybe that she will come to trust and love you and grow in a more intimate relationship. Either way, respect her wishes and take your time.

with love and light

Thanks for the feedback. A few things you said that I'll clarify or respond to.

First; I'm not in pain any longer over my wife. The grieving process that I went through lasted about 3 years but I've healed from it, and had I not I would not have entered this new relationship. I'm a little different than most men. I don't stuff emotions. I spent many years working with hurting people in mental health, and in fact I learned to assertively deal with my own emotiions and issues through that. Unlike most people, I"ve never put up walls to protect myself after being hurt. I freely accept pain that occurs in relationships as a necessary risk and have always tried to learn from it. I also admit and work on things that arise as they arise, which is what I did with my wife's death. I don't blame myself for that or hold any guilt as a result. I know I did all I could. That issue is not this one and I'm now as healthy as one could be who has survived something like that. That is all God's doing...not mine.

Second; I know that this present situation isn't the same but my prior experience might possibly allow me to gain the perspective I didn't have before and that experience is available for me to gain some wisdom if in fact this situation turns out to be rooted in a simillar problem. The reason I'm trying to discern what is going on here is because I do believe this lady is coming back to me, though it will probably take some time. In the past, she's backed off when things got to close, but when I simply stayed where I was, allowed her to get comfortable with her boundaries and didn't let it drive me away or use it as a way to try to pull her back...she's returned back again on her own. She herself has said this is helpful for her. I'm not pursuing after her or pressuring her in any way, but I do want to know how to pray for her and I definitely want to be sensitve to her and understanding of her if in fact she does return.

Finally, I'm not trying to take control over this issue in any way, and I'm certainly not trying to "add" to her other pain with this. I've not mentioned this to her in any way, nor will I do so. My purpose in coming here is only for me to present what appears to be a very unexplainable and radical change in her behavior, behavior that is vastly out of character for her...to a group of individuals who have dealt with things that I think she might possibly be going through. At this time, it's not appropriate or possible for me to ask her these questions directly. But by being aware of the signs and what they might represent, I can at least prepare myself mentally and emotionally to support her if that's what she chooses. At the end of the day, I truly hope this issue is not what is going on here. As you said, abandonment by itself is a major issue, and that one I do know exists for sure. That is plenty to deal with by itself, but IF this additional problem is there, I think being able to ultimately love her through it is a choice I will have to make if she comes back. That choice has already been made on my part, thought I hope it's not even necessary.

I don't mean this in a negative way or want to seem ungrateful for people taking time to respond...but I'd really prefer not to be given advice on what to do or not do with her which is what I stated up front. I know everyone means well with that...I've done that myself numerous times. She and I both share a very deep spiritual faith that I believe is the ultimate answer here, but I love this lady, and right now I'm just looking for God to teach me on a very personal level related to this specific woman, exactly what I need to be doing in my own relationship with Him, and how I need to have an open mind and heart that is teachable so I can be there for however she needs me to be in supporting her as well. At the moment that seems to be accomplished by backing off and honoring her wishes with this. I have no problem with that at all. I just want to spend this time profitably and be ready for whatever comes if and when she returns.

Thanks for listening and responding...God bless.
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ivonne
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a poll is the way to go:

a. she's been abused
b. she's not been abused
c. it's impossible to tell at this point

I strongly lean toward b.

Ivonne
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Taubah
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatever you say dude.

I just told you what i thought, do whatever u want with the advice. Cool
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EricasGuy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taubah wrote:
whatever you say dude.

I just told you what i thought, do whatever u want with the advice. Cool

Well as I said from the start, I'm not looking for advice, just some evaluation of the circumstances that offer insight on what may or may not have occured.
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